Black Web 2.0 - Latest Comments in How Not to Run Ad Network

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Dee Daniels — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 04:07:01 -0000

noirwomanadnetwork.com is a black woman's lifestyle network accepting publishers with content for women specific.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

legalvanitynumbers — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:08:04 -0000

Kudos to you Marcus! this is down right amazing..we can use this approach atlaw firm marketing plan

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Erica@African-AmericanBrides — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:16:25 -0000

Yes! What Dede said. Some of these networks pay only who they want to pay to keep the fuss down. This is the same way it happened with that other network targeting blogs-of-color. They paid certain high-profile sites first and everyone else had to hustle to get even one payment. They should have just called it a pyramid scheme. Some folks still go for that kind of thing.

Like I said on the Twitter thread, I'm using a combination of Google AdSense, Glam, BlogHer, and a few relevant affiliates. Seems to work pretty well, so I never joined the GG one. But then I'm not really looking to sign up with one of these newer networks unless I've heard good things and I'm not holding my breath. ;)

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

John — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:16:15 -0000

I agree. I think it is too bad it started angry and with finger pointing. Very unnecessary but thanks for the forum.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Gina — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:55:32 -0000

I think we can all agree that everyone on this comment thread wants African American bloggers, publishers, developers to have the same access to opportunity, capital and success as those in other groups. Folks who read this blog are the choir. So right now we're all fighting over the A and B selection.

There are those in the Black blogosphere who are totally oblivious to both sides of this argument and are ripe for exploitation.

This was a good discussion thread however.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Gee — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 08:24:06 -0000

Whoa...those are all the BIG ad networks. Those surpass all the "black" ones. What website are you using that on?

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

John — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:04:38 -0000

Also, I just realized that this blog is part of a vertical ad network...I do see the Adify tags load up in the footer...how is that going for ya and how many networks are you part of??

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

John — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:52:30 -0000

Again, a lot of these networks are new and a lot of the processes are new. The industry was just introduced to vertical ad networks. Some work great and some not so great. It actually takes a network a good year to 2 years to really become a good contender. A business is not started overnight and neither are vertical ad networks. GG, MOG, etc are new. The platform they use seems to be developing into something big and it will take time.
The fact that you can be part of many networks, AND do your own media sales, what do we as publishers have to loose really? I have used networks that I was able to put in a redirect to another provider when no campaigns are available and still made money. No loss there.
I agree with the annoyance of late payment, but again, late better than never these days and we will see a consolidation of VERTICAL ad networks(which again I would not include in the same sentence as HORIZONTAL ad networks) in the months to come.
There is a lot going on out there and one unhappy publisher should not try to represent a whole network just by their experience. I am in one and am very happy with the service and revenue.
It honestly comes down to trying a few and see what works for you. Remember that the revenue is directly proportional to the media sales teams they have...and some suck and some suck really bad! Media sales folks are the sleaziest of them all (i think).
Stay independent and join networks...try to make as much money as you can...and in the end, if staying independent is better then rock on!

There is no RIGHT answer...the industry is still too young.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

HipHopFred — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:39:16 -0000

I worked at Comscore and have been subscribed to Comscore and Netratings (and all sub products) across several companies. NOW HEAR THIS: both companies SUCK for black website measurement and could care less about black sites. Neither service has a black site category and don't see the need for them at all.

After BET, BlackPlanet, BV, there is a huge drop off to BAW and AHH and after those 2 sites its everyone else with a seperation in the hundreds of thousands and guess what -- there are a nice handful of black sites in a that chasm in between but none show up. Why? Because the large bulk of blacks are less likely to participate in big brother tracking programs...it's a known fact. Plus its just a panel so some site's are even overstated in the panel since 1 black person represents an abnormal share of blacks in the US.

Both services have a dedicated hispanic panel but no one cares to make one dedicated to black.

Realize that you may never know who you're talking to - - too funny!

Im out! say what you want for that last word -- live and eat on that

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

No Clue — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:46:48 -0000

again... no clue.

If you look at Comscore (what lots of brands use to measure sites) stated BV, Essence, BET, MTO, Bossip and YBF are the top sites. None of here are in the "just blogger" mind state - but it seems you are. (also look at compete, quantcast)

If you are looking at sites that are not owned by "old media" or corporations - then MTO, Bossip and YBF are top.

And please - let me know what are the top sites - since you know. Please let us all know that live and eat this.

Sorry - if you couldn't come up with a valid or informed response.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

HipHopFred — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:35:25 -0000

Like I said -- expected as much in a response -- no surprised (btw Bossip and MTO aint the top black sites in traffic or ad sales - do your homework sonny and get out of the 'just blogger' realm and gossip realm). Love the side insults and jabs. That was even my first post here. You guys don't realize that your experience is not going to be shared with the next site. I love big mac my girlfriend doesnt.

I think the bar is set to high for people that really dont understand the purpose of fill services

Im out - never responded here and never will again. Back to BigTent at adage for me where the grown folks are.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

nOva_SB — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:26:41 -0000

Thanks, No Clue. I don't think the intent of the discussion was to villify ad-nets as a whole, rather than share stories about the bad apples.

I will say that, at least when people were sharing negative experiences they were able to name names, whereas those of us who were robustly defending them provided very little specifics and wanted to "lecture" the "little guys" on "how the business works". Additionally, very little of that lip-service went to exploring why certain ad networks courting the publisher instead of the other way around. I have one such network pursuing me right now and never once did they mention that my site was "too small" to work with them.

How do you explain that?

At any rate, I haven't had any bad experiences with late payments, etc, because I never let the one situation I was in escalate to that point. But the offers I've since received are laughable. Be it GG, BET or MOG. They're all incrediably wack, so the only advice I would have for anyone is be on the look out for these branded adnets. They talk a good game but aren't offering anything. The moment we see the words "We cater to Urban and Hip-Hop publishers", I suggest you run like hell.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

No Clue — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:07:38 -0000

Dude. Who online is making 1 million? Even Bossip and MTO the top black sites are not there --- you sound new and uninformed. This post is to warn people of the traps. GG, Rushmore, Essence ad networks are all traps for your traffic to get them more impressions for a higher ad buy.

Who is being disrespectful? Publishers are sharing their experiences and you need to take note before it happens to you Freddy.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

nOva_SB — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:42:43 -0000

Wassup NWS! Be careful telling your horror stories on here or someone will find a way to make it all your fault, LOL.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

HipHopFred — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:26:17 -0000

Damn John -- that was so well put: Thanks for the clarity (you too BlackAdAgency guy). Be aware that it's always the same people on this blog that have the most negative and nasty things to say and its starting to make this site look bad in the way people with sense are attacked. I am in a vertical (black) ad network and i'm having a ball. My site isn't large but I'm not expecting a mint in snatch yet either but I do have a lot of relevant ads on my site that I wouldn't have in any other sense and its helped me to get interest from other advertisers which that company represents me for as well. They've been max 1-2 weeks late from what I was expecting every now and then but thats nothing abnormal to me.

The amount of disrespect towards people that speak the truth and are just trying to help us is incredible and probably making a lot of real professionals go elsewhere I'm sure. STFU little guys. If you ain't sitting on a milly minimum just don't talk - 4 real - just shhhhh. The jack-a in you is ringing hard and the big guys are just shaking their heads. The G-O-D don't like ugly...know this and karma is a MF.

Fellow publishers..don't let someone that ain't making the dough tell you what to do with your hustle or how to think. Do u. John...great words.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

NerdwithSwag — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:57:35 -0000

Same situation happened to me, initially with RushMore drive who told me our relationship would be highly profitable, then had me running ads on my site for MONTHS that yielded zero profit, ZERO. Then they never contacted me again... The nerve of some folks?!

GlobalGrind also approached me to joint their network for a similar deal, but being that I had the horrible experience with RushMoreDrive I was highly hesitant, good thing I looked out the contract though, it was incredibly fishy. I then told the representative that i'd wait and see how GG heads in the near future, then come up with my final decision. Moral of the story? Stay independent brothas and sistas!!!

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

BlackAdTalk - Webmaster Forum — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:43:34 -0000

Well actually I have never had to beg a non-black ad network for my MONEY...
Have worked with Valueclick ( aka... Formely Fastclick ), Burst Media, Casale media for years...
Minus Burst Media, the other 2 networks are Net 30...

-Smile-

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Anthony Farrior — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:47:21 -0000

Learned a lot about ad networks today!!!!

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

John — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:32:06 -0000

What do ad networks really mean these days. There are the old and tired advertising.com (horizontal) and there are many new VERTICAL ad networks mostly powered by a company called Adify. There are a few companies that also power vertical ad networks but I wouldn't put those networks in the same 'negative' space some of you keep doing.

The aggregation of like sites for a common cause is very different than a random site in a random network getting random advertising. Vertical ad networks help enable highly targeted advertising around a specific demographic while doing other forms of targeting like BT, Geo, etc. This is great for the advertiser. This is also great for the publisher because in no way can a publisher with low delivery have quality brand advertising unless they are part of such vertical ad networks. These networks filter out bad content sites and maintain high quality because it makes sense for them to do that.

Also, networks taking time to pay is NOT always the networks fault. Haven't you guys realized that is has become increasingly hard to collect from advertisiers and agencies. Even a network like GLAM went to a net 120 or higher because of this. Even Google had issues paying. Even Apple is having issues paying their iPhone developers...everyone is having issues!

I don't think some of you truly understand the online advertising business inside out but do a great job with your blogs by smearing circumstances out of a networks control, or an advertiser, or even an agency. Publishers can hound for payment and I dont blame them. Times are tough. But some need to understand the overall process of what it takes to collect payment before blaming anyone. Its not lime networks don't want to pay. It is their business and some their livelihood. These venture backed networks that NEED to produce and NEED to keep their publishers happy.

Late payment is a product of what is happening in the economy. You should get angry an NO payment and blog about that!!!

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Gina — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 18:42:33 -0000

@Dede I've been pretty consistent in thinking an ad-based model for revenue is a dead ender for the average indie blogger. Yes, ads have a role and should have a place as a revenue stream, but the relationships/brand whatever you build are far more valuable in other ways. I look at Ebony and Jet sitting on tens ( possibly hundreds)of millions of dollars of value based on the "relationship" they ought to have with their readers and shake my head in awe at the thought they could go under. Why on earth would we walk the same path?

I am just trying to demystify the hustle to help others. I've got Google Adsense up on my blogs just because I was badgered about it ( I think you were there :)) Low and behold the checks start flowing in. It was the first time I had any idea what my "passion" was "worth' in a tangible way. I remember offering a special that charged a dollar a day because ads to me had little or no value. They still don't. I laugh at how little I valued my own sites. Adsense is a rough estimate of course, but to someone who would do it anyway for free, it helps know what NOT to do. Sure Google is the Devil, but it help to know where Hell (or the bottom of the barrel) is located.

Can't wait for somebody on this board to buy Ebony and Jet. Hopefully they will not have completely gone under by then.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Dede @ Clutch — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:34:18 -0000

Great..Cause I hate conversing with know-it-all's. But, thanks for trying to drop some knowledge. I do appreciate that.

This was fun! (cheese and a wink)

xoxo, Dede

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

April Davis — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:21:16 -0000

Tell us about the buying of direct sites.

Give us ALL the details.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:11:25 -0000

I think for the most part we've relegated to little insults which is the story of black folks from the beginning. Again guys, just trying to give perspective on how money flows and time is used. at the end of the day if a site can't deliver -- it doesnt help us if we have a controlled message that we have to get out in a short period of time.

I'm done -- fading to black until another blog story catches my interest.

I will give you an email soon Dede (im about to mack her yall - @dede just kidding!)

Great convo/Peace

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Liz — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:06:53 -0000

i know of some minority ad networks (ahem) who have delayed payments by a long shot. then tried to counter back with "but we're black owned" as a reason to stick with them and their bs. don't fall for the okie doke.

i am anti-ad network, unless of course you have enough traffic to sustain some decent leverage with one. Most black bloggers don't at this point (the top 3 black blogs have a shot, if that). For the most part they are all evil and trynna get over if you are below a (fairly high) threshold.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

Dede @ Clutch — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:59:33 -0000

@ Black Ad Guy - you have truly made my day! LOL - thanks so much.

Well - thanks so much for your comment and response. One thing I can assure is you wont see my resume there (kinda spoiled) and I will do everything in my power to try to keep my online family off there as well. See - that's the difference here - I like to educate and uplift those going through this mess.

As I stated earlier - I am with an agency - Black Rock Digital. As far as your recent ad buy - no worries there. If someone or a brand doesn't recognize me or my brand - then the lost is not mine. I can pretty much only speak for myself - but I would rather continue to keep my current lifestyle and goals/mission for Clutch/Cullen then to get an ad buy from someone or a brand that is questioning it or it's potential.

The sad thing here Mr. Ad Guy is why you are boasting your most recent ad buy - there are others out there that could benefit from it. As for "pretty" and happy Dede (that I am - thanks) I am happy to stick in there for the long haul.

I just hope your resume doesn't cross my desk one day - cause - I wouldn't wanna test that out - cause my client roster wouldn't want old thoughts and ways on my team making outdated decisions.

But, seriously - if you wanna talk to me - it's dsutton@clutchmagazine.com. (wink, wink)

As for my family - Nova, Afrobella, BlackWeb, Gina, Brown Sista, Black and Married with Kids and others - don't worry - you will get there with or without them. Don't compromise yourself or your mission for some money.